Slightly different subject, but personal anecdote:
When I was buying my car, it came down to the Toyota Prius (hybrid) or the Yaris (fuel-efficient standard car).
I calculated the total price of the car, assuming gas was perpetually $5 a gallon, for 5 years — the duration of the loan.
Because the Prius costs more up front, the costs ended up being nearly the same; neglibile differences. EXCEPT if gas prices went down, as they did.
And it was easier to handle the lower payments up front than to handle a higher payment and hope gas prices stayed high.

Yay Yaris!

I'll have to admit I had been thinking very short-sighted there. In terms of gas, it seems that it would save, but the other energy wastes have to be taken into consideration also for the global cost.
However, the personal, out of pocket cost is lower.

Perspective is a funny thing. As Nigel Tufnel put it, "Too much perspective."

Food imports are a b***h to get to grips with. If I buy my oranges from 3rd world countries then the carbon footprint is through the roof, but if I don't then I'm depriving third world folks of my money with which they will help them climb up a world or two.

Tough one.

I haven't actually done any research on this, but just because the oranges come from third world countries buying them probably doesn't help them too much because the profits would go to corrupt elites who run plantations that pay very little for the labor and which exhaust the soil and which they often acquired through corrupt and non-market methods.

So if more power plants were powered by something other than fossil fuels, then hybrids would make sense?

But yes, that increases perspective.

"Too much, there's too much f&cking perspective now." as David St Hubbins would put it.

But...



Yes, but that still doesn't address the platinum issue.

Hydrogen fuel cells would probably make even more sense.

Having worked in a couple of third world countries (let's call them developing countries, I know there's an assumption in that title, but it sounds better), I must say that I think your description of plantation-owning robber barons with cheap labour is a great exaggeration.

I would be more worried about cooperatives, formed by small farmers, all eking out a meagre existence due to the limited scale of their operation. We need more operations on a real commercial scale, operated according to modern standards, which actually means rewarding your labour properly, paying taxes, etc.
By the way, this is equally true for the production of oranges, coffee, chocolate, cotton, and yes, even gold.

What about the platinum issue?
When you buy your car you pay for the production cost of platinum too including pollution safety expenses. The company should take care of environmental effects. Right?

And that is the platinum issue.

They don't.

Do plantations have any significant environmental impact, such as exhausting the soil, or have they figured out ways to keep these things under control?

To be fair, though, no car manufacturer pays for the destruction of the environment for coal and metal mining. It isn't just platinum that needs to be mined for hybrids, it's all metals (and plastics!) that need to be extracted/mined.

The intelligent consumer would be aware of this, though it seems most people I've encountered will buy a hybrid and then condemn those big, bad, dirty mining companies.


I wonder if higher oil prices will mean vehicles will be made with less plastics? I haven't thought much about this, it just popped into my head now.

When oil prices change, do the prices of or profits made from each little piece of cheap Chinese plastic junk change?

Well of course they do, I would imagine that the increased transportation costs would be more noticeable then the increased cost of making plastic.

I don't think so*


*I try and avoid "junk" at all costs, I'd rather buy quality products made locally

it will run out one day but as long as we have it there will be lots of propaganda.

I guess that will be propaganda from both sides of the coin. And maybe from the third side, you know that thin edge too.